1*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerFrom - Wed Oct 17 13:27:51 2018 2*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerX-Account-Key: account1 3*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerX-UIDL: GmailId166832be205bc2bd 4*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerX-Mozilla-Status: 1013 5*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerX-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 6*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerX-Mozilla-Keys: 7*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerDelivered-To: [email protected] 8*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerReceived: by 2002:ab0:208c:0:0:0:0:0 with SMTP id r12csp943206uak; 9*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:56:23 -0700 (PDT) 10*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerX-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61EHdCAKXqiC2g4VHKVIL9kgr4swWkJtL9r6jorwOeN6QWG09j9dd8vuBA2AqOxUrypnI88 11*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerX-Received: by 2002:a17:902:16a4:: with SMTP id h33-v6mr26279849plh.3.1539798983448; 12*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:56:23 -0700 (PDT) 13*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1539798983; cv=none; 14*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; 15*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker b=E/rO76Tc0QzdNYVqa3mOrkhv21WxRyex6QvEcEw2ejkTXu3csi2hFDckupiXuJyBYi 16*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker zXk7prvMPwpP229CvoeWCl723QCCDRFU0b1S/1Z7gD9I3gk/t6Vnp0U1pJ/oFhUaExlJ 17*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker l2/HwgzW0eVnMQsJHKlzP8zNqJhOUFD+xI35NiRa9J1tH0BomncWOz7lTXlvaTED2Vdz 18*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker ZHoFuv89BUKCkKGbfm4/O0KTNECK6rK1Db87M/rGCpUQpCQacVr29Lf3AWLQikDR62dB 19*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker vCqIMCD3mvRcPPOo8VIN/xyQQ9J4OcBZ/jZ/zfxcbZc11fng8GNHlp33hCxuyKHUwbeT 20*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker nOmw== 21*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; 22*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker h=date:content-transfer-encoding:content-id:mime-version:comments 23*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker :in-reply-to:reply-to:subject:to:from:message-id; 24*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker bh=HpIGga40Wz3PXDOHP7PrAJqWHlOoA7xl5QvPk2tjJig=; 25*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker b=JdV87WgS3oz/oa3fJSLdgU42ag+CKECK7OuT/DLvHfmwc2XtIMkx99zexEOi3S8DJp 26*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker eaxLjf70GfCzWyq2fP11rUjemnTxW9R9efZEkZanvq36rbj7A+3/NmzvYPLwm8bihlke 27*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker Gu8/FoVrE8ZANi252MKvejMVYsrYsyEJnO/vmiteVR5wD8mwHtYQnDXmwta6ZhH/ko+t 28*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker uWXkHxOxs6y21CElD+40BvkIGGwFNd4FptjTA1T0rgw0PTUB/igdKvvwk1LotqbERJv5 29*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker nhNHc47pJ4EU2o7G4yAwBBVETXQYYc8rl259VCKiSuGy0hEKGKweVieTEAe8V+NrZzd2 30*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker UV7A== 31*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; 32*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of [email protected] designates 70.36.157.235 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom[email protected] 33*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerReturn-Path: <[email protected]> 34*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerReceived: from chez.mckusick.com (chez.mckusick.com. [70.36.157.235]) 35*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 129-v6si18906639pfd.201.2018.10.17.10.56.23 36*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker for <[email protected]> 37*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); 38*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:56:23 -0700 (PDT) 39*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerReceived-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of [email protected] designates 70.36.157.235 as permitted sender) client-ip=70.36.157.235; 40*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerAuthentication-Results: mx.google.com; 41*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of [email protected] designates 70.36.157.235 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom[email protected] 42*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerReceived: from chez.mckusick.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) 43*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker by chez.mckusick.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w9HI1egQ039009 44*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker for <[email protected]>; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:01:40 -0700 (PDT) 45*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker (envelope-from [email protected]) 46*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerMessage-Id: <[email protected]> 47*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerFrom: Kirk McKusick <[email protected]> 48*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerTo: Rob Landley <[email protected]> 49*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerSubject: Re: License naming question. 50*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerX-URL: http://WWW.McKusick.COM/ 51*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerReply-To: Kirk McKusick <[email protected]> 52*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerIn-reply-to: <[email protected]> 53*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerComments: In-reply-to Rob Landley <[email protected]> 54*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker message dated "Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:57:10 -0500." 55*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerMIME-Version: 1.0 56*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerContent-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 57*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerContent-ID: <[email protected]> 58*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerContent-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 59*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerDate: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:01:40 -0700 60*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerX-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MISSING_MID, 61*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 62*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerX-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on chez.mckusick.com 63*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 64*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> To: [email protected] 65*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> From: Rob Landley <[email protected]> 66*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> Subject: License naming question. 67*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:57:10 -0500 68*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 69*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 70*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> Hi, 71*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 72*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 73*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> We spoke at Ohio Linuxfest back in 2013 (you attended my Rise and 74*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> Fall of Copyleft talk, and then we talked in the hallway afterwards). 75*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 76*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 77*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> I _think_ I told you about my plans to try to promote public domain 78*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> equivalent licensing, a concept which has a wikipedia page now: 79*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 80*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 81*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain_equivalent_license 82*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 83*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 84*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> For toybox what I did was take the OpenBSD suggested template license 85*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> off their website and remove the half-sentence requiring people to 86*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> copy that specific license text into derived works, and the resulting 87*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> license made it past Google's lawyers! My toybox project has been 88*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> providing the command line for android since Marshmallow 89*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> (https://lwn.net/Articles/629362/) and we're making progress on 90*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> getting android to build under android, the Bionic libc maintainer 91*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> recently sent me a roadmap update about that: 92*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 93*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 94*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> https://github.com/landley/toybox/commit/92b359f00057 95*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 96*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 97*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> I called the resulting license "Zero Clause BSD" (by analogy with 98*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> "Creative Commons Zero" and the existing 4 clause, 3 clause, and 2 99*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> clause BSD licenses), and I even got SPDX approval for it in 2015 100*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> (because Samsung asked me to shortly after Google merged it into 101*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> AOSP, they'd been adding it aftermarket before then and having an 102*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> SPDX identifier for the license simplified their internal bureaucracy). 103*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 104*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 105*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> Then a couple months after SPDX approved it, somebody _else_ submitted 106*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> the same license to Eric Raymond's old Open Source Initiative using 107*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> "Free" in the name, as in Free Software Foundation. (A sadly loaded 108*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> term these days.) 109*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 110*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 111*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> I hadn't known they were still in the license approval business 112*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> (they stopped approving new licenses in... 2012? And I remember 113*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> them explicitly _rejecting_ CC0 saying public domain isn't a license, 114*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> which their FAQ still talks about at 115*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> https://opensource.org/faq#public-domain). But they approved the 116*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> toybox license under a different name, then asked SPDX to retroactively 117*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> change their name for it. (SPDX didn't, but OSI refused to admit 118*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> it made a mistake, even though they said they had a policy to keep 119*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> the names in sync. They hadn't done their homework.) 120*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 121*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 122*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> Now every time the license is considered for a new use, the confusion 123*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> OSI caused tends to derail things: 124*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 125*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 126*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> https://github.com/david-a-wheeler/spdx-tutorial/issues/1 127*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 128*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 129*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> When github itself was considering adding 0BSD to its license 130*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> pulldown (which would have been a big win), I was asked what I 131*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> thought of the naming confusion, and I wrote two long things on my 132*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> rationale with lots of links to earlier stuff, which you can read 133*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> here if you'd like: 134*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 135*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 136*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> https://github.com/github/choosealicense.com/issues/464 137*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 138*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 139*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> Anyway, I recently decided to ask OSI to admit they made a mistake 140*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> and change their name for the license to match what SPDX did, and 141*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> there was unanimous approval... 142*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 143*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 144*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license-review_lists.opensource.or= 145*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Workerg/2018-September/003519.html 146*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 147*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 148*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> Until the same guy who was objecting last time showed up to continue 149*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> to object. He ignord the "who used it first" axis, and said he 150*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> wanted to know which name was used more today, and then when he 151*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> lost that argument he said he objects to calling something a BSD 152*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> license that isn't using Berkeley's original wording. 153*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 154*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 155*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> My question is: do you object to the name "Zero Clause BSD" for a 156*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> public domain equivalent license that's the OpenBSD suggested 157*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> template license with half a sentence removed? 158*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 159*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 160*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> If you want to stay out of this, I understand. I'm pretty sure I 161*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> asked you this in 2013 before I started pushing the name, and 162*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> wouldn't have if you'd objected then, but that was long ago and the 163*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> water under the bridge is dead... 164*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 165*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 166*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> Thanks for your time, sorry that took so long to explain. (And even 167*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> longer if you read the big long github choosealicense thread. :) 168*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> = 169*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 170*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker> Rob 171*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 172*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerThanks for the through explanation of the situation. 173*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 174*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerI have no objections to the name "Zero Clause BSD" for your license. 175*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 176*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard WorkerI hope that you are successful in getting OSI to change their name 177*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Workerfor the license to match what SPDX did. 178*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 179*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker Kirk McKusick 180*cf5a6c84SAndroid Build Coastguard Worker 181